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Penthesilea
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So, WHAT are we talking about here?
Jun 11th, 2008 at 1:40am
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Here’s a question to which I have been unable to find a completely satisfying answer. What do you mean by “dark?
Specifically, what do you really mean when you say “Dark Pagan?”
Who, and what, do you mean when you say “Dark God” or “Dark Goddess?”  Do you mean “nocturnal?”  Or do you mean “evil.” And if you mean, “evil” how do you define that? Do you mean outside the accepted status quo? Or do you mean something else?  And what about “negative?” hmmm......

Now, in the religious sense, mainstream Christianity -- or at least many mainstream Christians -- seem to take the position that anything that conflicts with their beliefs is of Satan and therefore evil. Which, on a good/bad day could conceivably include their fellow believers in Jesus Christ whose only failing is a trivial point of doctrine such as, oh, seeing nothing wrong with short hair on women who wear pants. So that definition is rather too broad for my taste and for most people’s. So what is “evil” outside of a narrow religious context?

And is there such a thing as an “evil” God or Goddess? Off the top of my head, I can’t think of one. Oh, of course, there are Deities that you probably wouldn’t want to invite to a dinner party, formal or otherwise, but to say that They are evil is going a bit far. Scary? Yes. Forbidding? Yes. Representative of Things We Don’t Want To Face? MOST DEFINITELY!  But “evil” in the sense that Hitler’s Final Solution was evil, or China’s Cultural Revolution or the purges of the Khmer Rouge were evil? No, I don’t think so.

So, when you say, “dark” what do you mean?
When you say "negative" what do you mean?
When you say, “Dark God” or “Dark Goddess” what and Who do you mean? And why? And what makes a Deity “dark” anyway?
  

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Black_Rose
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Re: So, WHAT are we talking about here?
Reply #1 - Jun 30th, 2008 at 1:03am
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Ok, only answering one part of your questions here.

In my opinion, in general, "dark" magic is magical practices and goals that skirt the edges of the "harm none" idea, or dive right over into "directly harm". That would include things that are manipulative, deceitful, or against the wishes of/without the knowledge of the target of the working.

This does NOT include protective spells worked for or on the behalf of children. Children are those who have not yet reached an age of reason, and the responsibility for their physical and emotional care rests with their parents and designated other adults. There is no set age of reason in my book, it seems to differ with each child when they are capable of reasoning and taking responsibility for themselves and their actions. I even know some "adults" I consider to not yet be of the age of reason, and treat them accordingly.

Alternatively, some folks consider dark magic to be any magic conducted with a sense of malice or intent to do harm directly or indirectly.

I think it may well be that "gray" covers the ground between purely altruistic "white" and purely malevolent "dark" magics, partaking in part of both ends of the spectrum. Dualistic thinking came in with Xtianity, we do not need to feel held to it in non-Xtian thinking.


Black Rose
« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2008 at 1:04am by Black_Rose »  

"Age and wickedness will always overcome youth and enthusiasm."
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Penthesilea
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Re: So, WHAT are we talking about here?
Reply #2 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 5:06am
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I've been doing some reading intending to answer, at least in part, my own question. Unfortunately or fortunately -- depends on your point of view -- I have this book jumping up and down on my head screaming "WRITE ME!!!!" Metaphorically speaking, of course, although I sometimes wonder! This incessant demand has really cut into my reading time.

Anyway, what little reading I've been able to do on the subject has led me to the conclusion that much if not most of the time when a witch/pagan talks about "dark" or "the dark" they are talking about "shadow" as in one's personal shadow. "Dark" gods and goddesses are those who have domain over "shadow" aspects: the shadow self, death, blood, "uncivilized" sex, destruction and the transformation that results from confronting and accepting your shadow to name probably only a few of the possibilities. So it is possible that someone following a "dark path" could be working on confronting and accepting their personal shadow and/or helping others to do the same while someone else, following a so called "light path" could be flinging manipulative/destructive energies right and left with absolutely no regard for the consequences to their targets or themselves. Smiley I definitely need to do more reading and more thinking on this but at the moment, it would seem that "dark" used in the context we're talking about here can have different, mutually exclusive meanings that would foster more misunderstanding than clarity -- and how many people think to ask for clarification?
I'm not sure if I've made much in the way of sense here. The cognitive functions aren't quite completely offline but they're thinking about it. I'll revisit this topic when I've developed this train of thought a bit more.
  

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Penthesilea
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Re: So, WHAT are we talking about here?
Reply #3 - Dec 1st, 2011 at 3:34pm
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This Topic was moved here from The Dark Side [move by] Penthesilea.
  

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