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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Firing Range (Read 15029 times)
Salanthos
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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #150 - Nov 26th, 2007 at 7:47pm
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Thank you very much for the informaton, Black_Rose.
I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into giving me a full, complete,and very usefull answer.

I agree completely that a gun is neither toy nor gadget nor shortcut.  That is a large part of the reason I have been looking for information, and as much of it as possible, before even considering buying one.  In truth, I expect it will be a while, maybe as much as a year or two, before I actually start going around looking seriously for one, probably less than that before I go looking in real life for a firing range or something to learn more in person first.  But I strongly believe that gathering information is always a good idea, even though the notion is in its infancy, so to speak, which is why I'm asking now.

I'll definately look to find a local firing range, though.  I hadn't even thought renting was possible.  It is one of the reasons I was already thinking of purchasing, because I thought having acess to one would be necessary for safty courses and such, but learning first by renting is a much better idea.

I can also see the benefits of starting wth a rifle.  the only reason I didn't want to is if purchasing was necessary first, since I don't want to keep a rifle or such at home - it would be harder to keep appropriately locked away without buying a specialized locker, due to the larger size.  But if it is possible to try and learn first, it would certainly seem a better place to start.

Black_Rose wrote on Nov 26th, 2007 at 5:50am:
I know I have harped on how dangerous firearms are, and how important safety is, and I probably sound a lot like folks you know that disapprove of weapons. Honestly, if you went to any well trained military personnel above the rank of corporal, and asked them about weapons, you would likely hear the same things. The same goes for any experienced police officer. I don't disapprove of folks having weapons, I disapprove of folks having weapons and being ignorant about the tool they choose to own. I would be pleased if everyone capable of being responsible with one would learn about and own firearms, personally. Historically, an armed society is a polite society.

I agree completely.  They are dangerous, and it is VERY important to have all the knowledge necessary first.  And I think most people who disapprove of weapons have the same base idea, that people who are ignorant shouldn't have them (they just think most everyone is, and can't or won't learn).  I would say, for myself, it is a matter of rights AND responsibilities - the constitution may guarantee the right to bear arms, but if someone has or wants a weapon, it is their gods-given *responsibility* to learn everything they can and everything they need to know to be a responsible owner.

So, again, thank you very much for your information, it has been very helpful, and is exactly what I needed at this point.
« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2007 at 7:48pm by Salanthos »  

SmileyBetrayal is Forever Smiley&& Smileyinverse retrograde karma by proxy! but... but... what does it mean?Smiley&&&&Smiley"It's entirely possible that, in the great play we call life, you aren't the main character." -Little Billy&&SmileyYou shall know the truth, and it shall make you odd.Smiley&&&&Smiley "We are not pacifists. Allowing harm to continue is not harming none; it is harmi
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Deirachel
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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #151 - Nov 29th, 2007 at 1:23am
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Let toss about two cents into this....

A retired police officer I know had the most truthful statement about a firearm.  Let me quote the conversation:

(while another man was looking at weapons to buy)

"I don't know, it doesn't feel comfortable."

"The day a gun feels comfortable in your hand is the day you should never touch one again."

There is a subtle point he is trying to make.  Guns should scare the SHIT out of you.  Every time.  Plain and simple.  Every Time.

Guns do two things: kill and destroy.  That's it.  And they are very efficient at doing this.

Remember this at ALL times when around firearms and/or any of their components.

But, that doesn't mean they are not good tools for a responsible person.

Some rules for shooting:

1. Never fire a weapon in anger.

You may be tempted to go shooting to relieve some stress.  Don't do this.  It's a slippery slope.  Do it once, and you will be tempted to do it again.

2. Always know what you are shooting and what is the result of that.

If you can't see your target, don't fire.  If you are not sure of hitting your target, don't fire.  If you are not sure you are willing to destroy what your are hitting, don't fire.

3. Always follow gun safety rules.

Never point the gun at something you are not going to destroy.  Always follow the range rules (eye/ear protection, down range rules, follow range master's instructions to a T.)  Always know what weapon/ammo you are shooting.  Some rounds may be of the same caliber as another, but they are not the right round for your weapon.  For example: .45 rounds come in many types .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), .45 GAP (Glock Automatic Pistol), .45 Webley, .45 Colt, .45 Super, .45 Schofield, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 S&W...most semi-autos use ACP (my Ruger P345 does), and some can accommodate multiple types.  Some can not (again my Ruger only uses ACP).  Using the wrong type in the weapon can destroy the weapon, either over time or catastrophically.

4. Always be aware of your surroundings.

Every self-defense instructor worth their salt will tell you this.  Firearms, martial arts, whatever.  If you are in a situation where you must use your training, you have already made a mistake.  It may have been an unavoidable mistake, but it is a mistake none the less.

5. Remember your training.

You are only as good as your training.  Get GOOD training!  Practice your training!  Get different training!  Multiple training sources give you different information which can help you in different ways.

That's it for now.

« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2007 at 1:35am by Deirachel »  
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Salanthos
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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #152 - Nov 29th, 2007 at 3:36am
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Wow.  Very good advice, Deirachel.
*scribbles it down*
It makes sense, and I will be sure to keep it in mind.
Thank you very much.
  

SmileyBetrayal is Forever Smiley&& Smileyinverse retrograde karma by proxy! but... but... what does it mean?Smiley&&&&Smiley"It's entirely possible that, in the great play we call life, you aren't the main character." -Little Billy&&SmileyYou shall know the truth, and it shall make you odd.Smiley&&&&Smiley "We are not pacifists. Allowing harm to continue is not harming none; it is harmi
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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #153 - Dec 1st, 2007 at 9:59pm
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LOL

D and I tend to have similar views on many things, weapons being one of those!

I am glad you are doing lots of research before diving in to the sea of weapons. There is a lot of information out there, and over time it will become clear which information is the most accurate, and what things will suit your purposes and abilities best. Try the manufacturer's sites as well, they publish a lot of good information as well. It IS in their best interests, after all!

As far as making a rifle safe goes, if you choose to buy a bolt-action rifle, removing the bolt from it and locking that up will make the rifle unfireable. And the bolt is much smaller than a whole handgun, except the tiny derringers.

As far as folks who disapprove of guns go, the most common thing I have heard is a vehement and ignorant argument that "guns are dangerous--no one but the military and police should have them!" I most strongly disagree with that sentiment.....*guns* are not inherently dangerous--the person behind the gun IS, whether through malice or ignorance. A gun cannot aim itself, nor can it pull it's own trigger, therefore it is not the gun that does the damage, it is the person in control of that gun. There are many, many people who are afraid of guns the same way some people fear snakes or falling. So yes, they do fear ignorant people having weapons, but they actually fear the weapon more than the person behind it. This is exactly like a child's fear of the dark itself, and not the dangers of ignorance in moving in the dark. No one seems to fear rocks themselves, yet they are as dangerous as firearms, IN THE RIGHT HANDS. It is the same with any other weapon, including firearms. The exception being that firearms make a loud scary BANG, and are simple to discharge---note I didn't say USE....it takes skill to USE a weapon well. Anyone can throw a rock, or fire a gun, but it takes skill to hit what you want consistently. In any case, it is always the person behind the weapon that is the important factor, not whatever weapon they are wielding. I once read a statistic that suggested that as many as 5 in 6 new soldiers will fail to discharge their weapon at the enemy upon first contact---that means that only ONE in SIX new soldiers will actually fire under attack! What this should mean to you is that despite training, it is very difficult to actually pull the trigger with the intention of ending another's life....even in situations where it is not only ok to do so, but is expected of you. This is because most "normal" people have such a deep, culturally ingrained respect for life that there is an inherent resistance to ending someone else's life. Those who live a lifestyle that disregard human life will pull a trigger almost as soon as seeing you, and those are the people to fear. Those folk are the ones who rob banks, mug people, and kill without thought. They truly do not respect or fear death, so it is no conflict for them to act in an instant to end a life. Fortunately, that type of person is a minority in the population as a whole, but it is always possible you will come in contact with them at some point, hence the need to understand what you are defending yourself against. If, deities forbid, you have to use a weapon to defend yourself, don't hesitate. If you have seen the need to fire to protect a life, do it, and do it instantly---they will not hesitate to fire at you. That is the mistake an untrained person or a hesitant one makes, not firing. If there is a need to draw a weapon, there is a need to fire or not fire---this is not a time for discussion or thinking or threatening, but for reacting to the imminent threat.

Hmm, I seem to have wandered around again....sorry.
As you can see, I do have strong opinions on weapons and their use. I don't intend to scare or offend anyone, however I am unlikely to change my opinions without a good deal of proof, so trying to change my stance on weapons is pointless without it. Don't get me wrong, I am an open-minded person, just quite firm on my opinions about weapons.

D is absolutely right in saying that gathering as much information as you can, and getting training from different sources is important. The more you know, the better armed you are, in any situation. This includes looking inside yourself. The biggest fight you will have is going to be with yourself and your own personal fears if you ever have to pull the trigger. You will not have time to play the "what if' and " what happens after" games with yourself. You will be called on to act, or possibly die. You must fight that battle with yourself long before you are ever in that situation, and decide what you can and will do if it ever comes up. It is not something you can put off, or the fear in the moment will cause you to freeze. Your choice must already be made, and so ingrained you will act despite the fear, no matter what. Because no matter what bragging you may hear, if you are not afraid in that moment, you are a psychopath and need serious help. That is the whole point of military training, to cause you to train your mind and muscles to that decision to pull the trigger. And even with that, only one in six can do it when the time comes. That fear in the moment is huge, smothering, and VERY personal. Trust me, I know. Very few people can act despite it without having already made their choices before that kind of situation has come up. I know all this sounds rather dramatic and possibly exaggerated. I hope you never have to find out, personally. But if you choose to learn weapons, you are already thinking in a direction that may put you in a position someday where you must choose, whether to defend your own life, or another's. It is best to have already chosen.

OK, I'll give back the soapbox for a while....I need a drink. Of soda! LOL



Black Rose
« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2007 at 10:03pm by Black_Rose »  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #154 - Dec 1st, 2007 at 10:51pm
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Ah, BR. You are a woman after my own heart. *goes to join BR in a soda...*
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2014 at 6:34pm by Penthesilea »  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #155 - Dec 1st, 2007 at 11:23pm
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Gee, will we both fit?  Wink




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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #156 - Dec 1st, 2007 at 11:33pm
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We'll get it in the gallon size....
  

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Salanthos
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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #157 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 3:22am
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Thank you very much for the long and thoughtful post, Black_Rose.  You've given me a lot to think about.

*gives soda*
  

SmileyBetrayal is Forever Smiley&& Smileyinverse retrograde karma by proxy! but... but... what does it mean?Smiley&&&&Smiley"It's entirely possible that, in the great play we call life, you aren't the main character." -Little Billy&&SmileyYou shall know the truth, and it shall make you odd.Smiley&&&&Smiley "We are not pacifists. Allowing harm to continue is not harming none; it is harmi
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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #158 - Dec 27th, 2007 at 11:04pm
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I was talking to Skywise about this during a.... ahem.... "break in the action" and we're pretty much agreed that unless something comes up, we'll be shopping fairly soon and should have the deed done by Spring. Frankly, I'm anxious to get started. After all, the sooner I start the sooner I will reach the level of proficiency that I want. There are several gunshops in town as well as a large pawn shop. There is also a gun shop on the southside of Indianapolis near one of the home improvement stores we're always hitting! Finding the right gun doesn't look to be much of a problem. I just need a convenient shooting range. I could go to the one near Camp Atterbury but that is really a longer drive than I want to make regularly, just because of the time involved -- not to mention the cost of gas these days! I'm hoping that there is a small, discreet "not listed in the Yellow Pages" range within 10 miles or so...
« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2009 at 7:31pm by Penthesilea »  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #159 - Feb 17th, 2009 at 7:40pm
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Penthesilea wrote on Dec 27th, 2007 at 11:04pm:
I was talking to Skywise about this during a.... ahem.... "break in the action" and we're pretty much agreed that unless something comes up, we'll be shopping fairly soon and should have the deed done by Spring. Frankly, I'm anxious to get started. After all, the sooner I start the sooner I will reach the level of proficiency that I want. There are several gunshops in town as well as a large pawn shop. There is also a gun shop on the southside of Indianapolis near one of the home improvement stores we're always hitting! Finding the right gun doesn't look to be much of a problem. I just need a convenient shooting range. I could go to the one near Camp Atterbury but that is really a longer drive than I want to make regularly, just because of the time involved -- not to mention the cost of gas these days! I'm hoping that there is a small, discreet "not listed in the Yellow Pages" range within 10 miles or so...


Well, “stuff” came up, mostly van repairs, and there was no gun buying last year. *sigh* So I’ve been tucking cash aside whenever I can and I have a little piled up in my “Gun Fund.”  There is a big gun show scheduled for next month at the state fairgrounds. I’ve marked it on the calendar so it won’t get lost in the shuffle. If the tax refund has arrived by then (Skywise mailed our return from work on Monday)  a new firearm could be in my future.  It occurred to me that a large gun show would be a good place to “gun shop” since it would offer a wider selection among numerous vendors with competitive pricing than a local gunshop would.
What has brought this to a somewhat higher state of awareness for me is NOT Hillary Clinton’s appointment as Secretary of State -- although that situation isn’t giving me a case of the warm fuzzies --  but the fact that one of our neighbors felt the need to fire off a single round at 2 a.m. on Sunday night/Monday morning.  I have no idea what was being shot at but what I do know is that no one around here is inclined to panic or the irresponsible use of firearms, (those that have them) so I figure whoever was shooting had a good reason.
I still haven’t found a public firing range close at hand which annoys the “stuff” out of me but I’m going to keep looking. I intend to get a “Lifetime” concealed carry permit so maybe I can get some leads when I go to apply for that.  The one at Camp Atterbury is still there and I found one in the northern part of the county. Both are farther away than I like but what can ya do? Anyway, “gun quest” is hopefully back on track.
  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #160 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 12:58am
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I've got some good news and bad news on the gun range front. There are NO public ranges within easy distance of here which is weird considering the number of people with firearms around here.
There is, however, a private gun club just barely south of town. Memberships are $75 for the year and covers the member and spouse. There are several pistol and rifle ranges available and two members are NRA certified instructors.
The bad news is that the membership is limited to 500 and it is filled. No new applications are going to be taken before the first of 2010. Unless you are Active Duty Military, Police or Fire of course. *sigh* Neither Skywise nor I are in any of those categories so I'll have to wait until next January to apply. *more sigh* Of course, I don't have my gun yet -- the "Gun Fund" is growing though -- so it's probably moot at this point.
After what happened last week, I've pretty much ditched the "shoot at home" plan. A man in the northern part of the county was killed when a stray bullet came through his wall and hit him in the chest. It was fired by a neighbor practicing with his pistol. Their houses are about 300 yards apart and it was announced today that the neighbor is going to be charged with negligent homicide. The neighbor claims that he fired into the ground but there are some fresh gunshot marks on some nearby trees so it could be he's not being entirely truthful about where he was aiming. Anyway, it'll be a shooting range for this girl, even if I do have to wait a year.
We really need more gun ranges in this county....
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2014 at 6:35pm by Penthesilea »  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #161 - Mar 19th, 2009 at 10:45pm
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Here's the link to the latest on that fatal shooting. I guess that they decided "reckless" was more appropriate than "negligent."

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/18969089/detail.html
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2014 at 6:36pm by Penthesilea »  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #162 - Apr 11th, 2009 at 4:06pm
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I've been browsing for firearms online this morning, mainly to get an idea of prices. Prices at the gun shops in this part of the state are well above MSR because of (low level) panic buying (Apparently, a lot of people don't trust the current administration to not fiddle with the 2nd Amendment.) and, of course, the law of supply and demand being what it is, prices are going up. On the site I'm currently looking at, an auction site, the prices look more reasonable. I'm not ready to buy yet. I want a bit more "cash in hand" before I start seriously shopping even though I'll likely use a credit card just for the consumer protection it gives. When the bill comes, I want to be able to pay it off in one go! Anyway, that's what I'm doing this morning while I'm catsitting....
« Last Edit: Apr 11th, 2009 at 4:09pm by Penthesilea »  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #163 - Jul 15th, 2010 at 7:05pm
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Just an update. I almost have my "goal amount" in the Gun Fund and I'll probably start gun shopping during our vacation in September. I've found out that the local shooting club has regular NRA approved classes on gun handling and I'm planning on taking those. The club has a nice shooting range but it's members only with a limited membership of 500 unless you are police, fire or active duty military, none of which I am. I'll be applying for membership in January (when everyone has to "re-up") if I've found a suitable gun by then.
« Last Edit: Jul 16th, 2010 at 3:30am by Penthesilea »  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #164 - Sep 18th, 2010 at 2:37am
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The "Gun Fund" is comfortably full, finally. I think I'm gonna start hunting for firearms. Probably as soon as the Makeover is over....
  

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Re: The Firing Range
Reply #165 - Dec 20th, 2010 at 4:00am
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The "gun fund" is still comfortably full. I'm still adding to it and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we can start shopping in the spring. I'm seriously considering setting up some sort of range near the house. One of our idiot neighbors has spent almost every Saturday for the last three months going through ammo like it was cheap candy. I'm talking in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred rounds in an afternoon. This guy isn't doing "target practice," he's just blasting away like a moron and I figure that if he can do THAT, I should be able to take some practice in an area convenient to my house.
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2014 at 6:36pm by Penthesilea »  

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